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Offline Dalaja

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Salaam - I'm new here, have question re: Balochi in Iran
« on: January 25, 2006, 09:45:20 PM »
Hi, I am a student and taking a course in Iranian language and culture and I would be very grateful if any Balochi speakers could give me a little info about their language as it is very hard to find much about it elsewhere.  Here are a few things I would like to know about; but any information at all would be greatly appreciated:

1.  Which dialects are spoken in Iran?  I have read that there are a total of about 6 "official" dialects of Balochi by speakers in all regions. But specifically, I'm interested to know which ones are spoken in Iran.

2.  Can a speaker of one dialect easily understand another dialect?  I saw another posting here with Balochi translations of English words that have two different, but similar translations in Balochi--are they translations in two different dialects?

3.  If the dialects have different vocabulary, I would be very grateful if speakers of different dialects could tell me what dialect you speak, and give translations for the following:

      head, heart, mother, father, sister, brother, colors (red, black, white, blue, etc.)


4.  If the dialects are mutually intelligible, in general, what are the differences in the dialects--is it pronunciation, vocabulary, etc.  In other words, how does a person recognize that another is speaking a different dialect?  Are there cultural differences between dialects?

5.  Anything else that you think might be interesting to know about your language :-)

I know it sounds like I'm asking a lot, but even the smallest bit of information will be a great help to me.

Thank you so much for taking the time to read this and for any information you can provide.

Offline Perozai R!nd

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Salaam - I'm new here, have question re: Balochi in Iran
« Reply #1 on: January 26, 2006, 11:02:48 AM »
Salam  Dalaja.First of All We All Warmly Welcome you In Balochi Dewaan.

I hope U Will Get Knowledge All About Balochs And Balochistan And Thir Language Balochi.So Keep Stay Here With US And Share Ur Queries.We All INSHALLAH Try To Share Our Knowledge With you.


Offline Rind Baba

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Salaam - I'm new here, have question re: Balochi in Iran
« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2006, 08:51:21 PM »
Brother Dalaja Your Most Welcome To Diwan  (F)

Enjoy ur stay
With Best Wishes


ur brother
Rindbaba
You can chain me, you can torture me, you can even destroy this body, but you will never imprison my mind.

Long Live Baloch & Balochistan

Offline Zahida Raees Raji

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Re: Salaam - I'm new here, have question re: Balochi in Iran
« Reply #3 on: February 07, 2006, 11:11:30 AM »
Hi Dalaja:

Welcome in Baaskaani diwan.
Thanks for joining us. I am really glad to see your interest in Iranian languages.
   
For the authentic answers of your questions I contacted to a Baluchi linguist Dr Agnes Korn, here is his answer for you:

Quote

--- agnes korn <a.korn@em.uni-frankfurt.de  wrote:


Dear Zahida,
 
here are answers to two questions. For the rest, I   suggest that your member joins
  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/balochi_culture/.
There are a number of very knowledgeable Baloch in   this group who can help.
 
 1. Which dialects are spoken in Iran? I have read   that there are a total of about 6 "official"   dialects of Balochi by speakers in all regions. But specifically, I'm interested to know which ones are spoken in Iran.
 
Interestingly, this is not entirely clear yet as not all Bal. dialects of Iran are investigated yet. However, we assume that on the coast, there is a Southern Balochi (Makrani) simialr to that of the Pakistani coast. In the north at the border to Afghanistan, the dialect is very close to the Western Balochi of Afghanistan, which is different from Pakistani Rakhshani in some grammatical features, but a bit similar for the rest. The remaining Bal. dialects of Iran have changed their grammar a bit (probably due to the influence of
  Persian). Among these, there is a sort of Rakhshani  spoken in the horthern half of the province Sistan  and Balochistan, and two dialects called Sarawani  and Lashari which are somehow between Southern and  Western Balochi. We have a map at
>
http://titus.fkidg1.uni-frankfurt.de/didact/karten/bal-dial.jpg,
  but you should keep in mind that  this is a very preliminary one, and the issue needs
  much more research.
 
    2. Can a speaker of one dialect easily understand another dialect? (...) <
 
this is very difficult to say, because understanding depends (also) on how much contact a speaker has with speakers of other dialects and how much experience with trying to understand others, and   this depends on whether she/he has friends speaking other dialects (then one will probably   understand them rather well), and has the opportunity to travel, and access to Balochi-language   media etc. Understanding also depends on whether one person *wants* to understand another person or not.
From a linguistic point of view, every Bal. dialect has its own grammar, and also somewhat differing vocabulary.
 
  Best wishes
  Agnes
 



I hope you are satisfied with Dr. Agnes reply.

We are looking forward for your active participation in baaskaani diwan.

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Zahida Raees :Raji:
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Offline Zahida Raees Raji

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Re: Salaam - I'm new here, have question re: Balochi in Iran
« Reply #4 on: May 02, 2006, 07:36:24 PM »
Dear Zahida Raees,


I am sorry that it has taken me so long to answer your questions. I have had so many other things to deal with, but now the burden of official duties is a little bit less as we approach the end of the semester. Please find my answers, as well as I can, below. I also include a list of my publications on Balochi. If you want any articles, just send me a note. The book: Standardization and orthography... is unfortunately out of print these days, but several people in Karachi, e.g. the Sayyid Hashimi Academy, have a copy. I also send the file of an article I wrote two years ago. It was published in:


The Role of the State in West Asia, eds. Annika Rabo and Bo Utas. Istanbul: Swedish Research Institute 2005, pp. 151-163.

(see also below for specific questions)


Looking forward to hearing from you again.


Your sincerely,
Carina Jahani
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



Quote
Dear Professor Carina Jahani:
Assalam-o-alaikum,

I am an administrator of a Baluchi website www.baask.com which is launched just to promote Baloch, Baluchi and Balochistan.

Our most of the members are Baloch but few non-baloch also joined us and they are keenly interested to learn Baluchi.
We all Baloch learnt Baluchi at home thats why we are totally unaware about grammer.
Here in Karachi, Pakistan material for Baluchi learners is out of reach. I personally went to search out in famouse Book markets but did not found a single book.

On our site an english member recently joined and asked few question regarding Baluchi language.
We all members are unable to satisfy him thats why i asked to Uncle Ameeri (Nako Nautaq Ameeri) and now a days he is not feeling well thats why he refered me to you.

Its a kind request to you please give us something from your valuable time and guide our learners.

I'll be thankful to you.

http://www.baask.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=653

Thanks and best regards

Zahida Raeesi

admin@baask.com

----------------------------------

member wrote:
Hi, I am a student and taking a course in Iranian
language and culture and I would be very grateful if
any Balochi speakers could give me a little info about
their language as it is very hard to find much about
it elsewhere. Here are a few things I would like to
know about; but any information at all would be
greatly appreciated:

1. Which dialects are spoken in Iran? I have read that
there are a total of about 6 "official" dialects of
Balochi by speakers in all regions. But specifically,
I'm interested to know which ones are spoken in Iran.


It is not possible to say that there are 6 official dialects, since nothing, unfortunately, is official about Balochi. It is not an official language anywhere. Dialect divisions can be broad, in which case we normally see Western, Southern and Eastern Balochi as the three main dialect groups.


But dialect division can also be more narrow, in which case one would probably want to divide the Western dialects e.g. into Turkmen, Sarhaddi (including Afghan), Panjguri, Noshke-Kharan, Kalat and other subdivisions. A special position is held by the Sarawani dialect in Iran, which is heavily influenced by Persian.


Southern Balochi may also be divided into e.g. Lashari, Kech-Mand-Tump, Karachi-balochi (which by the way is not totally homogeneous), Dashtiari, Chabahar-Brees-Gwadar (coastal), Omani and Khalij dialects.


There are certainly subdivisions in the Eastern dialect block as well, but I am not so well aware of them.


In Iran both Western and Southern dialects are spoken, but not  eastern.


2. Can a speaker of one dialect easily understand another dialect?

It depends on many factors, such as level of education, travel in other parts of Balochistan, linguistic awareness etc. But I think one can say without doubt that a speaker from the eastern area (e.g. Marri-Bughti) and a speaker from e.g. Turkmenistan or Sarhadd in Iran would need some time of getting used to the other person's way of speaking before they would understand each other well even if they are well educated and have good awareness of their language. Loanwords from different languages in different dialects make comprehension more difficult.


Even between Sarhaddi (e.g. spoken in Zahedan, Khash, Noshke) and Sarawani (spoken in the Sarawan valley in Iran, just south of the Sarhadd area) comprehension is somewhat difficult.

I saw another posting here with Balochi translations of English words that have two different, but similar translations in Balochi--are they translations in two different dialects?


It is quite possible. Balochi has, apart from its own variation between dialects, also borrowed many word from different neighbouring languages.


3. If the dialects have different vocabulary, I would be very grateful if speakers of different dialects could tell me what dialect you speak, and give
translations for the following:

head, heart, mother, father, sister, brother, colors (red, black, white, blue, etc.)



This question should be answered by some Baloch from different dialect areas




4. If the dialects are mutually intelligible, in general, what are the differences in the dialects--is it pronunciation, vocabulary, etc. In other words, how does a person recognize that another is speaking a different dialect?

Differences are both phonological (pronunciation), morphological (forms of words), syntactic (word order and other grammatical structures, i.e. how words are put together) and lexical (vocabulary). One must read descriptions of different dialects or overview articles to find out the differences:


See e.g. Adam Nader Baranzehi, The central Sarawani Dialect, described in


Jahani, Carina and Korn, Agnes. (eds.), The Baloch and Their Neighbours: Ethnic and Linguistic Contact in Balochistan in Historical and Modern Times. Wiesbaden: Reichert 2003.


Are there cultural differences between dialects?

Cultural differences depend on e.g. different traditional economy of northern Balochistan (mainly pastoral nomadism) and southern Balochistan (mainly agriculture and date production etc). Cultural differences may also depend on the fact that some Baloch are  sunni, some zigri and some shia. Culture does not depend on the language, but the language is an _expression of the prevalent culture.



________________                                                     
Carina Jahani
Professor
Iranian Languages
Uppsala University
Department of Linguistics and Philology
Postal address:Box 635
SE-751 26 Uppsala,Sweden
Visiting address:Thunbergsv. 3 H, Room no. 9-3028
Phone:+46 18 471 7869 Telefax: +46 18 471 1094
E-mail: Carina.Jahani@lingfil.uu.se
Zahida Raees :Raji:
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Offline Shoaib Shadab

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Re: Salaam - I'm new here, have question re: Balochi in Iran
« Reply #5 on: February 25, 2011, 11:36:27 PM »
Balochi Dialects

      Western

1.   Sarhaddi Rakhshani
2.   Afghan Rakhshani
3.   Turkmen Rakhshani
4.   Panjguri Rakhshani
5.   Kalati Rakhshani
6.   Sarawani

     Southern (Makrani)

1.   Coastal
2.   Lashari
3.   Kechi
4.   Karachi

     Eastern or Suleimani Dialect

1.   Bugti (Bambore Dialect)
2.   Marri-Rindh (Sibi Dialect)
3.   Mazari (Upper Sindh, DG Khan Region Dialect)
4.   Mandwani & Jatoi Dialects of Western Sindh Region

http://titus.uni-frankfurt.de/didact/karten/iran/baloc.jpg

balochilinguist.wordpress.com

Shoaib Shadab
Balochi Linguist
International Islamic University
Islamabad
Email: shoaib.baloch@iiu.edu.pk
Email: balochilinguist@gmail.com
Cell # +923323017921
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Offline Shoaib Shadab

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Re: Salaam - I'm new here, have question re: Balochi in Iran
« Reply #6 on: February 26, 2011, 12:29:21 AM »
The Balochi language is divided in several dialects: Eastern Balochi, Western Balochi, Northern Balochi and Southern Balochi. Each of these dialects are divided in sub-dialects. For example Rakhshani and its subdialects: Kalati, Panjguri and Sarhaddi), Saravani, Lashari, Kechi, Coastal Dialects, and Eastern Hill Balochi.

Dialects
Northern Balochi
Northern Balochi dialects are settled north of Iranian Balochistan and Golestan Province of Iran, north of Nimruz Province in Afghanistan and north Chagai District of Balochistan and north of Sind in Pakistan. Northern Balochi dialects are similar to northern Rakhshani and southern Makkorani dialects.

Southern Balochi

Southern Balochi in Iran are living in Southern of Sistan o Baluchestan. In Pakistan Southern Balochi are settled in Southern Balochistan, Southern Sind and Karachi. In Oman most are settled in Muttrah but some settle along Omani coastline and they can be found all over UAE.

Western Balochi

Western Balochi in Iran are living in Northwest and Southeast of Sistan o Baluchestan and very few of Western Balochi people can speak Persian. In Pakistan Western Balochi are settled in northwest of Balochistan. In Afghanistan they are settled along Helmand River and Zaranj area, in the southwest desert region and Mari region in Turkmenistan.

Eastern Balochi

Eastern Balochi are settle in northwestern Balochistan, southwestern Punjab and northwestern Sind in Pakistan.

Comparison
Balochi Dialects by population, region, religion, and languages estimated by the government of Pakistan in 1998.

 
Balochi Dialects

      Western

Sarhaddi Rakhshani
Afghan Rakhshani
Turkmen Rakhshani
Panjguri Rakhshani
Kalati Rakhshani
Sarawani

     Southern (Makrani)

Coastal
Lashari
Kechi
Karachi

     Eastern or Suleimani Dialect

Bugti (Bambore Dialect)
Marri-Rindh (Sibi Dialect)
Mazari (Upper Sindh, DG Khan Region Dialect)
Mandwani & Jatoi Dialects of Western Sindh Region
 

References

Ethnologue report on Balochi

Map showing Balochi dialects areas

http://titus.uni-frankfurt.de/didact/karten/iran/baloc.jpg

http://balochilinguist.wordpress.com/2011/02/24/balochi-dialects/


External links


http://www.ethnologue.com/show_language.asp?code=bgn

http://encyclopedia.kids.net.au/page/ba/Balochi_languageWestern_Balochi

This article is licensed under the GNU Free Documentation License. It uses material from the Wikipedia article Balochi dialects

 
 

Shoaib Shadab
Balochi Linguist
International Islamic University
Islamabad
Email: shoaib.baloch@iiu.edu.pk
Email: balochilinguist@gmail.com
Cell # +923323017921
https://balochilinguist.wordpress.com/

[/quote]
Dear Zahida Raees,


I am sorry that it has taken me so long to answer your questions. I have had so many other things to deal with, but now the burden of official duties is a little bit less as we approach the end of the semester. Please find my answers, as well as I can, below. I also include a list of my publications on Balochi. If you want any articles, just send me a note. The book: Standardization and orthography... is unfortunately out of print these days, but several people in Karachi, e.g. the Sayyid Hashimi Academy, have a copy. I also send the file of an article I wrote two years ago. It was published in:


The Role of the State in West Asia, eds. Annika Rabo and Bo Utas. Istanbul: Swedish Research Institute 2005, pp. 151-163.

(see also below for specific questions)


Looking forward to hearing from you again.


Your sincerely,
Carina Jahani
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



Quote
Dear Professor Carina Jahani:
Assalam-o-alaikum,

I am an administrator of a Baluchi website www.baask.com which is launched just to promote Baloch, Baluchi and Balochistan.

Our most of the members are Baloch but few non-baloch also joined us and they are keenly interested to learn Baluchi.
We all Baloch learnt Baluchi at home thats why we are totally unaware about grammer.
Here in Karachi, Pakistan material for Baluchi learners is out of reach. I personally went to search out in famouse Book markets but did not found a single book.

On our site an english member recently joined and asked few question regarding Baluchi language.
We all members are unable to satisfy him thats why i asked to Uncle Ameeri (Nako Nautaq Ameeri) and now a days he is not feeling well thats why he refered me to you.

Its a kind request to you please give us something from your valuable time and guide our learners.

I'll be thankful to you.

http://www.baask.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=653

Thanks and best regards

Zahida Raeesi

admin@baask.com

----------------------------------

member wrote:
Hi, I am a student and taking a course in Iranian
language and culture and I would be very grateful if
any Balochi speakers could give me a little info about
their language as it is very hard to find much about
it elsewhere. Here are a few things I would like to
know about; but any information at all would be
greatly appreciated:

1. Which dialects are spoken in Iran? I have read that
there are a total of about 6 "official" dialects of
Balochi by speakers in all regions. But specifically,
I'm interested to know which ones are spoken in Iran.


It is not possible to say that there are 6 official dialects, since nothing, unfortunately, is official about Balochi. It is not an official language anywhere. Dialect divisions can be broad, in which case we normally see Western, Southern and Eastern Balochi as the three main dialect groups.


But dialect division can also be more narrow, in which case one would probably want to divide the Western dialects e.g. into Turkmen, Sarhaddi (including Afghan), Panjguri, Noshke-Kharan, Kalat and other subdivisions. A special position is held by the Sarawani dialect in Iran, which is heavily influenced by Persian.


Southern Balochi may also be divided into e.g. Lashari, Kech-Mand-Tump, Karachi-balochi (which by the way is not totally homogeneous), Dashtiari, Chabahar-Brees-Gwadar (coastal), Omani and Khalij dialects.


There are certainly subdivisions in the Eastern dialect block as well, but I am not so well aware of them.


In Iran both Western and Southern dialects are spoken, but not  eastern.


2. Can a speaker of one dialect easily understand another dialect?

It depends on many factors, such as level of education, travel in other parts of Balochistan, linguistic awareness etc. But I think one can say without doubt that a speaker from the eastern area (e.g. Marri-Bughti) and a speaker from e.g. Turkmenistan or Sarhadd in Iran would need some time of getting used to the other person's way of speaking before they would understand each other well even if they are well educated and have good awareness of their language. Loanwords from different languages in different dialects make comprehension more difficult.


Even between Sarhaddi (e.g. spoken in Zahedan, Khash, Noshke) and Sarawani (spoken in the Sarawan valley in Iran, just south of the Sarhadd area) comprehension is somewhat difficult.

I saw another posting here with Balochi translations of English words that have two different, but similar translations in Balochi--are they translations in two different dialects?


It is quite possible. Balochi has, apart from its own variation between dialects, also borrowed many word from different neighbouring languages.


3. If the dialects have different vocabulary, I would be very grateful if speakers of different dialects could tell me what dialect you speak, and give
translations for the following:

head, heart, mother, father, sister, brother, colors (red, black, white, blue, etc.)



This question should be answered by some Baloch from different dialect areas




4. If the dialects are mutually intelligible, in general, what are the differences in the dialects--is it pronunciation, vocabulary, etc. In other words, how does a person recognize that another is speaking a different dialect?

Differences are both phonological (pronunciation), morphological (forms of words), syntactic (word order and other grammatical structures, i.e. how words are put together) and lexical (vocabulary). One must read descriptions of different dialects or overview articles to find out the differences:


See e.g. Adam Nader Baranzehi, The central Sarawani Dialect, described in


Jahani, Carina and Korn, Agnes. (eds.), The Baloch and Their Neighbours: Ethnic and Linguistic Contact in Balochistan in Historical and Modern Times. Wiesbaden: Reichert 2003.


Are there cultural differences between dialects?

Cultural differences depend on e.g. different traditional economy of northern Balochistan (mainly pastoral nomadism) and southern Balochistan (mainly agriculture and date production etc). Cultural differences may also depend on the fact that some Baloch are  sunni, some zigri and some shia. Culture does not depend on the language, but the language is an _expression of the prevalent culture.



________________                                                     
Carina Jahani
Professor
Iranian Languages
Uppsala University
Department of Linguistics and Philology
Postal address:Box 635
SE-751 26 Uppsala,Sweden
Visiting address:Thunbergsv. 3 H, Room no. 9-3028
Phone:+46 18 471 7869 Telefax: +46 18 471 1094
E-mail: Carina.Jahani@lingfil.uu.se
XXXXX